28 replies to this topic

[C12AZyED]

I hear this term : "FLD" mentioned quite frequently when on the topic of meta game mech builds.

I know its got something to do with high pinpoint alphas, but what does 'FLD' actually stand for >?

Cheers!

Edited by Egomane, 27 April 2014 - 06:36 AM.
activating tag and spelling correction ;-)

[Artgathan]

C12AZyED, on 27 April 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

I hear this term : "FDL" mentioned quite frequently when on the topic of meta game mech builds.

I know its got something to do with high pinpoint alphas, but what does 'FDL' actually stand for >?

Cheers!

[redacted]


FLD stands for Front Loaded Damage - it refers to weapons that deliver all their damage in one shot (PPCs, ACs). Damage over Time (DoT) weapons are those that take a bit to deliver their full damage (such as lasers).

Edited by Egomane, 27 April 2014 - 06:35 AM.
removed quote

[Lightfoot]

There is a lot of variation in damage types. Some weapons damage armor, some damage internals with critical hits which is what actually destroys the mech. Front Loaded Damage weapons (AC10, AC20, PPC, Gauss) actually do less DPS per payload ton than Damage over Time weapons (Lasers, MGs, AC2's, AC5's?), but are more noticeable and expose you to less incoming damage. Or that's the theory anyway. MWO has the recharge at up to 2xBattletech normal (Gauss Rifle) so it's hard to tell if this is working as it should.

I have to add that this 2X recharge is likely the reason Ghost Heat and most certainly the reason the Gauss Rifle de-sync needed to be apocryphally added to MWO.

Edited by Lightfoot, 27 April 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[Davers]

Would missiles be considered FLD weapons?

[Artgathan]

Davers, on 27 April 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

Would missiles be considered FLD weapons?

Technically yes (since when they actually hit they deal their damage instantly), but due to the fact that they typically spread their damage over multiple components I would consider them to be in their own sub-category (along with LBX).

[Davers]

Artgathan, on 27 April 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

Technically yes (since when they actually hit they deal their damage instantly), but due to the fact that they typically spread their damage over multiple components I would consider them to be in their own sub-category (along with LBX).

So they are only considered FLD weapons if they are good?

[Coralld]

Davers, on 27 April 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

Would missiles be considered FLD weapons?

I call them SB weapons, or Sand Blasters, that's because even though 1 missiles does its damage to one target location but the over all total and full damage of the weapon is spread all over the enemy mech. This is called the Sand Blasting effect, which is normally described with LBX but works the same way with LRMs, SRMs, and SSRMs.

[Mcgral18]

Davers, on 27 April 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

Would missiles be considered FLD weapons?

Each individual missile is indeed frontloaded, however it isn't pinpoint frontloaded since the missiles spread.

Meta is Pinpoint Frontloaded, in whichever combination works. Some are more efficient than others, but can be harder to mount or use.

[Mavairo]

Front Loaded Damage: Or Burst Damage.
This means the weapon deals all of it's damage near instantaneously with minimal travel time, and all in one burst. There's no waiting, what so ever with FLD/Burst Damage. It's all on tap right there.

Missiles are NOT FLD because of the lengthy flight times (even on SRMs as you approach their max ranges) also not every missile impacts at the exact same time.

[stjobe]

FLD, as has been said a few times already, stands for Front Loaded Damage.

In the context of MWO, it refers to weapons that do all their damage instantly as they hit, as opposed to weapons that do their damage in small portions over a duration (e.g. lasers). Our FLD weapons are the autocannons, the PPCs, and the Gauss Rifle.

Now there's an additional issue here, and that is spread. Due to our instant convergence and pin-point accuracy, FLD weapons have no spread at all; they do ALL their damage to one location, as opposed to weapons that spread their damage over several locations (all non-FLD weapons do this, either through beam duration or missile/projectile spread).

This is an issue because it allows FLD weapons to kill the enemy faster than any other weapons.

Imagine if you will, a weapon that does 30 damage.

If it is a missile weapon, it will deliver that 30 damage to several locations across the target, and some portion might even miss completely.

If it is a beam-duration weapon, it will deliver that 30 damage to several locations across the target, and some portion might even miss completely unless both the firer and target are stationary.

If it is a continuous-fire weapon (like the MG), it will deliver that 30 damage to several locations across the target, and some portion might even miss completely unless both the firer and target are stationary.

If it is a FLD weapon, it will deliver that 30 damage to a single location. No matter if the firer is moving, or the target is moving, or what the range is (as long as it's within effective range), or any other factors. If it hits, it does 30 damage.

No other weapons can do this. No other weapons can compete with that. Full damage to a single location every time it hits - and due to perfect convergence, that full damage can come from any number of FLD weapons.

This is why I've for the longest time been an advocate of burst-fire ACs and beam-duration PPCs (leaving the GR as the only FLD weapon). It would mean the FLD weapons would no longer be FLD weapons, and the weapons balance would become a little bit less egregiously FLD-slanted.

With the latest adjustments to ACs not being making them burst-fire though, I've given up on the prospect, pretty much resigning myself to the fact that FLD weapons will forever rule the battlefield in PGI's bastardized version of the BattleTech Universe.

[Lykaon]

stjobe, on 27 April 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

With the latest adjustments to ACs not being making them burst-fire though, I've given up on the prospect, pretty much resigning myself to the fact that FLD weapons will forever rule the battlefield in PGI's bastardized version of the BattleTech Universe.

Yet the current plan for Clan ACs is to have them fire bursts and not be FLD weapons.
However the stated design purpose was not to curb the FLD alpha strike meta but to create a purpose to use Inner Sphere ACs and Mechs (source was Paul in a recent podcast on NGNG).


So,to the OP you got your answer but what does it mean?

It means build a mech with 2 AC5s and 2 PPCs preferably with jumpjets and at least 2.5 tons of ammo per gun.

Highlanders or Victors are top choices and if you are inclined to use a hero mech the Highlander Heavy Metal is one of the best chassis to build the meta mech on (it does not have all it's weapons on the right side so it can not be disarmed by tearing through the RT)

[Mavairo]

Lykaon, on 27 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Yet the current plan for Clan ACs is to have them fire bursts and not be FLD weapons.
However the stated design purpose was not to curb the FLD alpha strike meta but to create a purpose to use Inner Sphere ACs and Mechs (source was Paul in a recent podcast on NGNG).


So,to the OP you got your answer but what does it mean?

It means build a mech with 2 AC5s and 2 PPCs preferably with jumpjets and at least 2.5 tons of ammo per gun.

Highlanders or Victors are top choices and if you are inclined to use a hero mech the Highlander Heavy Metal is one of the best chassis to build the meta mech on (it does not have all it's weapons on the right side so it can not be disarmed by tearing through the RT)

The real humor is between armor levels and Duration ACs on autocannons, no one above the absolute scrub tiers is going to be fielding clan ACs and quite likely no one will be fielding clan mechs for that matter.

Clan ACs being what they are is very telling about the insights or more accurately the complete lack of them as to why things function the way they do in this game.

Edited by Mavairo, 27 April 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[Artgathan]

Mavairo, on 27 April 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

The real humor is between armor levels and Duration ACs on autocannons, no one above the absolute scrub tiers is going to be fielding clan ACs and quite likely no one will be fielding clan mechs for that matter.

It really depends on how long the burst lasts. The UAC/20 is not a force to be trifled with, burst fire or not.

[Mavairo]

Artgathan, on 27 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

It really depends on how long the burst lasts. The UAC/20 is not a force to be trifled with, burst fire or not.

If it's like a MW2 UAC20, I'm not scared.
One Big Slug versus something I can twist and spread around?

Big Slug everytime.

[Davers]

Mavairo, on 27 April 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

The real humor is between armor levels and Duration ACs on autocannons, no one above the absolute scrub tiers is going to be fielding clan ACs and quite likely no one will be fielding clan mechs for that matter.

Clan ACs being what they are is very telling about the insights or more accurately the complete lack of them as to why things function the way they do in this game.

Clan LB-20X firing slugs will be a 2 ton lighter, longer range, IS AC/20 with one less crit slot and heat.

Basically all the Clan ACs will be LBs firing slug rounds.

[Mavairo]

Davers, on 27 April 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

Clan LB-20X firing slugs will be a 2 ton lighter, longer range, IS AC/20 with one less crit slot and heat.

Basically all the Clan ACs will be LBs firing slug rounds.

Well the LBX then will see the field. It sure as hell won't be the UAC or normal ACs of theirs though.
Irony: PGI turned the LBX10 into complete garbage for the IS, and turned the UAC into complete garbage for the Clans.

Edited by Mavairo, 27 April 2014 - 09:41 AM.

[Davers]

Mavairo, on 27 April 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Well the LBX then will see the field. It sure as hell won't be the UAC or normal ACs of theirs though.

Well they don't have normal ACs. Only LBs and UACs.

[Mavairo]

Davers, on 27 April 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

Well they don't have normal ACs. Only LBs and UACs.

They don't have UACs in my eyes either when it comes to this game.

[kapusta11]

FLD is damage delivery mechanic, it's not good or bad. If you have X FLD (AC, Gauss, PPC), X COF spread (SRMs), X DOT (lasers) saying that FLD is overpowered is equivalent of saying that COF and DOT are underpowered. In MWO you can't get X laser alpha without massive heat penalties, and COF SRMs are bad because of bad hitreg and short range.

In other words, yes, FLD is superior damage delivery method as long as others are not addressed in a propper way. It depends on what you consider as base, if X FLD is base then you need to multiply COF and DOT by 1.3 for example. If X DOT is base then multiply FLD by 0.75. The means of how you do it, whether by recycle time, heat manipulation or flat damage increase/reduction, don't matter. Then you have some other basic concepts like the shorter the range of your weapon the more damage it should deal (or vice versa the longer - the less, "the less" in this case can be achieved by increasing recycle times for sniper weapons, for example, this will keep huge damage potential but increase the time window for short range mechs to close in and reduce damage over time).

It's all about variables and how they interact with each other.

Edited by kapusta11, 27 April 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[Bobzilla]

It's going to be fewer pinpoint weapons (IS) vs more spread and better range (clan). It could be balanced, as long as they don't make clan weapons too hot.